COMING SOON: Border War XII

I am having trouble making arms that work!

I have a purchased stainless 3 lame articulated elbow cop and vambraces. They are OK. The problem comes when trying to attach a rearbrace.

Essentially, when my elbow is bent and arm rotated the rearbrace rotates around my upper arm. I can just put straps on it to hold it on the arm and put up with this, but its a lot of friction and interfears with hanging maile voiders and gambeson (lots of underarm material for mobility and padding). Moreover, I have seen commercial arms that point the rearbrace to the gambeson...I cant see how this works myself as the gambeson would be twisted around the arm/tear when swinging with a bent elbow.

An additional lame with sliding rivets connecting the rearbrace could possibly fix this. The thing is though, that I can find no evidence that anyone (historical or modern) does this (vambraces are often connected this way...but that seems pointless to me as the lower arm/wrist can twist freely inside the vambrace with little discomfort)

Am I missing a really obvious fix to this problem? Is it something others have had an issue with? Am I doing something wrong?

Any advice would be appreciated. I will take a look at othe fighters arms at the bash today, but I suspect most people have floating elbow cops.

Advice or suggestions welcome.

Cheers.

Josh (sca name pending)

Yep, floating elbow cops.  Will do some research and get back, though.

attach your rearebrace to your pauldron and dont attach it to the elbow at all is the simplest solution. it is just like an extended pauldron. you just have a strap or a pointe at  the elbow end and a strap or pointe tying it to the outside of your pauldron/shoulder.

I cant say that i have seen any examples of sliding rivets on a rearebrace, but I have seen a neat photo of a sliding and locking rivet for a greeve to poleyn lames so dont see why you could not do it the way you suggest.

I went home and had a look in one of my cheap kids books and there it all was laid out before mine eyes! This was a later period harness. Above the elbow about half way along the rearebrace was a "turner". The rearebrace is in two pieces with the lower section essentially a tube that fits inside the upper tube section because the join is made as a ring with the upper section the female and the lower section a male. The ring must be made by raising matching half circular lines at the end  of each section so that the lower fits neatly in the upper. this means you can turn the lower half a full 360 degrees on the upper half, but the two sections will not fall apart. Imagine the lid of a jar except it is not threaded and you can endlessly twisted it round but it never comes off.

It is a little tricky for my skills to make.

Thank you!!!

I can easily make a rearbrace that hold to the arm by its form (have to pass the hand and arm through it to put the arm on) and the addition of a thin metal or blastic brace underneath would act as a primative turner...much less friction than the full rearbrace against cloth or a sliding rivet and cloth especially if the rearbrace is small/doesnt overlap a lot...although its extra weight to my alredy very heavy 16ga stainless arms!.

Sadly my selection of stainless makes welded or raised interlocking 'turner' options difficult as the metal work hardens quickly and needs post weld heat treatment or its too brittle. Oh well, live and learn.

Thanks a lot for the replies. I will think on this some more. in the meantime, I can always have the cop hanging free or attached by only a small brace/band above the elbow.

Cheers

Josh

Very few fighters bother with a rearebrace opting to accept the bruises, or they just wear longer pauldrons so that covers about half the upper arm. Therefore you wont come across very many examples except may be at festival?

Indeed. I came across no one locally with a rearbrace, and I guess i really dont need one. I can lace the cop/lames to my gambeson.

I just now came across FFOULKES C. "Armour & Weapons" online and decided to take a look. He reffers (p58) to upper portions of a laminated rearbrace being attached by leather straps on the inside edge and sliding rivets on the outside edge to allow movement forward. I suspect this is an attachment of the pauldron to rearbrace allowing forward movement of the arm from shoulder, rather than rotation of the elbow (as this would be achieved by the sliding rivet at the front edge of the inside plate, or an upside down sliding rivet with exposed slot which is not done).

Edit: Unless the sliding rivet slot is covered by the pauldrons lames. In any case, I need to obtain pauldrons next. As you say, If they cover enough the rearbrace doesn't matter so much, and if not then the rearbrace needs to be made to fit under it.

Cheers, and sorry for rambling!.